From FBI Agent to Self-Defense Advocate: Rob Chadwick Journey and Essential Tips for Preparedness

Join former FBI Quantico trainer and USCCA Education Director Rob Chadwick for a candid discussion on modern self-defense. From his experiences protecting high-ranking officials to training FBI agents, Chadwick shares crucial insights on situational awareness, legal implications of self-defense, and why having a defensive tool isn't enough - you need the right mindset and training. Learn why even law enforcement officers miss 70-80% of shots in real confrontations, why constitutional carry isn't a complete solution, and how to avoid common legal pitfalls after a self-defense incident. Whether you're new to personal protection or an experienced carrier, this episode offers vital knowledge for keeping yourself and your loved ones safe in an increasingly complex world. 

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Transcript

From FBI Agent to Self-Defense Advocate_ Rob Chadwick_s Journey and Essential Tips for Preparedness
[00:00:00] Welcome to Preparedness Pro, where being prepared isn't about fear. It's about freedom. I'm your host, Kellene, and every episode we explore the peaceful principles of preparedness and self reliance. No gloom, no doom, just practical solutions for everyday living that help you become more independent and prepared for whatever life brings your way.
From kitchen skills to financial wisdom, emergency planning to sustainable living. We're building a community of capable, confident people who understand that preparedness isn't about preparing for the worst. It's about being free to live your best life regardless of what comes your way. So whether you're starting your preparedness journey or you're a seasoned pro, you're in the right place.
Welcome.
Kellene: Hey, everyone. It's Kellene, the preparedness pro, and I have got an amazing guest for you today. I keep finding these great people and Rob Chadwick is one of them, and I'm excited that you get to hear from him today. He is the director of [00:01:00] training and education with the U. S. C. C. A.
That's uscca. com, by the way. And the reason why I tell you that is because there's over 1, 500 classes, live classes, you go to, you meet other people that are like minded, you go to, you get to ask questions directly with a real live human being. Instructor and there's over 1500 going on throughout the U S just in the next month, folks.
So we're going to talk to a very accomplished man today in the form of Rob. I hope you don't mind the accolades, Rob, but I just think what you guys do at the U. S. C. C. A. Is wonderful. 
Rob: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to be on your show. 
Kellene: Well, so Rob, you've had a very impressive 20 plus year career with the FBI, including roles as a leader at Quantico.
 I hope we all know what Quantico is listeners. If you don't look it up, it's impressive. SWAT was most of your career. You also were an agent in charge of the protective detail for the U S attorney general. So I'm just a people person. And I would love to know if you [00:02:00] could share with us what drew you into this type of career and law Enforcement How have those experiences prepared you for your current role at USCCA?
If you could answer both those questions, that would be wonderful. 
Rob: Well, I appreciate the opportunity to do so. So it was absolutely a blessing to have the opportunity to do what I did. I spent 30 years in law enforcement. Started off as a police officer where I grew up in Northern Virginia, Fairfax County.
And then had the opportunity to go with the FBI. My uncle had been an FBI agent. And several, older people. male role models in my life had, you know, influenced me quite a bit. And I have many family members who are still on the job in law enforcement and just, it was just drawn to it from an early age.
And again, had the, you know, the good fortune, the good health, to be able to get into the FBI and just, you know, serve my country in a way that I felt like I was continuing to serve my communities as well. 
Kellene: Well, you're certainly one of the ones that, one of the types, President Elect Trump is referring to when he talks about the men and women, the boots on the ground and the [00:03:00] FBI, being stalwart individuals.
So how did those experiences prepare you for your current role at USCCA? I would love to hear about that transition. 
Rob: Well, one of the I had as a, as an agent, , had an incredible opportunity for so much training all over the world. , my final assignment, as you mentioned, was at Quantico. I was the unit chief of our tactical training unit.
So our job was to prepare our agents and our personnel all over the world for literally anything the job threw at them, , to make sure that they , come home at the end of the day. And so. I, you know, as a, as a function of that job, I got to train with some really amazing people and units all over the world.
And, , I had some experiences, which I think we'll talk about later in the show, , that really convinced me that I, didn't want to stop doing what I was doing just because I was separating from government service. So, yeah, just the incredible experiences and training and perspective that, I felt was almost unique, really almost.
compelled me to keep, doing what I, you know, what I [00:04:00] was loving doing. 
Kellene: Well, you were helping the law enforcement officers themselves to do their jobs and to do their jobs well and still stay safe and stay within the confines of the constitution that we know and love. And then you decided to take a path.
That you were benefiting the civilians in the world. What struck you to do that?
Rob: So one of the most significant moments in my career, fairly late in my career, I was at the time I was assigned to the Columbia division in South Carolina of the FBI. I was on the SWAT team there and my team responded to the church shooting in Columbia.
In Charleston, South Carolina, where the nine people were killed murdered in the basement of their own church. And so my SWAT team responded to that event and the crime scene there, really struck me just so powerfully as I looked at the victims and please understand that. That I am not being critical at all of those victims.
 They were exactly where they were supposed to be doing exactly what they were [00:05:00] supposed to be doing. They actually welcomed this monster into their midst and he sat with them for an hour during a Bible study. And at the end he stood up and shot nine of them, killed them where they sat. And the reason I, I mentioned this case, that more so than any other really hit home for me that without the fact that Preparation without really understanding that this could happen and that you, the individual must do something in a critical situation or you will be overcome by events as we've seen not only in Charleston, but in literally hundreds of others of these situations.
I wanted to really spread that word, honor those victims and the victims of other tragedies. Listen, We cannot preclude these attacks from happening. We can't preclude, you know, bad things from happening , all over the place. But what we can do is prepare our fellow citizens, help them understand truly what is happening in, their world and help them understand [00:06:00] That they must be become a stakeholder in their own safety and security because the world has changed tremendously.
 And there's so much you can do to drastically, you know, even the odds or, or give yourself a much better chance of achieving a positive outcome during a crisis. 
Kellene: Well, I think you're uniquely qualified because of that perspective. Because of what you've seen happen as a result of the lack of, , as a result of abdicating one's, , security to others.
And also as a result of having trained on the other side, you're uniquely qualified to help people know just how easy they can get in trouble doing some of the simplest things like defending themselves. And that's one of the things that struck me the most when I attended one of your classes, I've attended several, just so you know, in my local community.
 Here you are minding your own business and and then you have the unfortunate event of having to defend yourself but then there's a ripple effect and if you don't defend yourself and [00:07:00] acknowledge the ripple effect, then you can still end up in hot water. Which is what the U. S. C. C. A. Is all about is making sure that people have the skills to defend themselves as well as understanding the ripple effect after that. And that's one of the things that I love about your message that you guys put out there. 
Rob: I appreciate that. And it's so critical for people to understand. You're always need to be your own first line of defense because, you know, the police , have never been omnipresent.
Right. Omniscient. , you know, just they can't be everywhere all the time. And so, no matter where you are, who you are, where you live, , if if trouble finds you and it can find you anywhere, anytime, any place, , you must understand that you're going to be on your own for at least some amount of time before help arrives before the police can get there before the sheriff's deputy can arrive.
And The thing that I think is most undervalued or underappreciated is just how significantly our world has changed in the wake of the defund the police movement. [00:08:00] I'm not going to be political at all. I'll just, I'll give you the Joe Friday, just the facts, ma'am. , the fact is that in the wake of the defund the police movement, response times for law enforcement on average in the United States have doubled.
So you pick up the phone, call nine one, one, it is taking the first law enforcement officer, double the amount of time to get to you than it was just three years ago. And so that applies to everyone across the political spectrum, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, understand that if your plan is to call nine one one and wait for the police to arrive, it's going to take at least twice as long.
And you know, the average violent attack. begins and ends in about seven seconds. So even if there were a policeman down the street from you, they couldn't keep you safe all the time. So you must acknowledge things have changed. You must acknowledge that you have to be a stakeholder in your own safety and security.
And that's why I feel it's so important for the U. S. [00:09:00] CCA to be here. I believe as the head of training, my mission is to help our fellow citizens understand what they can do to be a responsibly armed, citizen. To protect themselves. And we'll talk about, you know, gun ownership , and my views on that.
 If you want to a little bit later, 
Kellene: well, certainly, , I'd love to get your perspective on that. Let's talk a little bit about understanding some self defense laws since we're there. , because many of our listeners are mindful of protecting themselves and their families, but they might not fully understand the laws surrounding self defense.
And that was the big wake up call for me when I attended your classes. Can you share how self defense laws vary? , and why it's critical to be well informed about them. 
Rob: Well, I'll start with the, you know, the old adage, and it's not just an adage, it's true. Ignorance is never a valid defense, right?
Ignorance of the law, right? So, you must know the law. , and here's the thing. So, my home state of Virginia is a prime example, the classic purple state, right? So, You could be involved in exactly the [00:10:00] same situation in southwestern Virginia, where I went to school. I was a Virginia Tech grad and, you know, pretty, , deep red part of the state.
And it's, very conservative. It's still the same Commonwealth of Virginia, right? The law, the law is the same. However, the local people. law and politics are vastly different there than they are, say, in northern Virginia, which is a deep blue part of that state. So even within your state, , it could come down to almost the zip code that you live in, depending on who that person is that is deciding, are we going to prosecute?
Are we going to investigate? Or, you know, that sort of thing. It's important to understand. Anytime you get into what I call a kinetic exchange with another person, whether you hit them, whether you shoot them peppers, whatever it is to defend yourself, even if it's the most, legally defensible, righteous, you know, use of force, you're still going to be investigated by the police.
It is their duty to investigate and determine what happened, fact [00:11:00] find. But many times politics enter those, those determinations or those, motivations, I should say. And so if you have a politically minded, you know, especially someone who was violently or adamantly against, you know, use of firearms or someone defending themselves, you could find yourself being prosecuted for something that the vast majority of your, fellow citizens would, would find.
Perfectly normal. Again, it's that our entire system of, criminal justice is based on the reasonable man. And I would argue in, you know, here we are late in 2024. Good luck defining for me what a reasonable American is that everyone would agree on, right? So we're, it's, Important for people to understand that, yes, you must know the law, but you also have to understand that you are going to go through some type of almost certainly criminal investigation, possibly prosecution, and then there's the whole civil side of it as well.
Kellene: Well, you know, that's interesting you bring that up. One of the instructors He made a very good point because I [00:12:00] remember it. So, you know, I'm getting older and I forget things sometimes. So the fact that I remember it, he says, how many of you have driven on the freeway? Okay. And how many of you have seen idiots driving on the freeway?
There you go. There's your peers of 12 people who are going to judge you. And you're right because , that's a. Toss up of whether or not you get that reasonable man or not, who's going to judge that your actions were reasonable. Now this is not to say folks that we shouldn't be defending ourselves because we're afraid, , we need to defend ourselves first and foremost, but there's a way that's why I had Rob come on here.
There's a way for us to defend ourselves in the aftermath as well. And those classes are valuable. They teach you what to say. What not to say more importantly, what's one of the key illegal impacts of saying, I just shot someone. 
Rob: Well, so , it's very, very important to understand as a, as an American citizen, you have your, your constitutionally guaranteed rights and the fifth amendment guarantees your right to not self incriminate, right?
 [00:13:00] You cannot be compelled to give evidence. That that would tend to incriminate you. But as a, as a former police officer, as a former FBI agent, as someone who dearly and deeply loves and admires and respects and supports law enforcement, I will tell you, their job is to investigate the crime and to gather as much information as they can.
, many people feel. Especially good people, which I'm sure most of your listeners are. They, they have a conscience. They feel like they should cooperate and provide information to the police without a lawyer present. And I can tell you that as a terrible idea. Okay. I'll, let's put it this way.
You're gonna, if this goes to court. It's going to be an exchange of lawyers and what do lawyers love their stock and trade is words Okay, and the more words you provide that Prosecuting attorney to pick apart and to rephrase and to take out of context You know the greater the opportunity is for tragedy for you in the courtroom So understand you have an [00:14:00] absolute right and there's nothing wrong with accepting that right and saying, listen, this is what happened.
And we prep our, our members. When you join the USCCA, you get a card and you get access to a 24 seven crisis response team that will help walk you through exactly what to say, exactly what not to say and why legally. And so, , when a crisis happens by definition, you're not at your best, you're not thinking clearly you've had this dump of, you know, adrenaline among other many chemicals.
So you're not. And so legally, your best defense is to remain silent. It is absolutely lawful and probably your best course of action until you have a professional representative who is your attorney, which of course the USCCA would provide. But this goes for anybody, non members. You know, if you get into a situation, wait for your attorney to be there.
They're professionally trained to help you navigate this process is all [00:15:00] it is. And so, you know, that just guilty almost, and I use that term, you know, , loosely, but this guilty compulsion to say, to explain away, keep it very short. Very brief. I would like my attorney present before I, , say anything else.
Kellene: What about that 9 1 1 call though? Because a lot of people don't realize that that 9 1 1 call is recording even while it's ringing. 
Rob: , the instant you connect to 9 1 1. It's recording, right? So before the operator picks up, if you're talking off, you know, off mic or whatever to whomever, it's picking up not only what you're saying, but everything that's happening around you, most of your listeners will have a cell phone or a smartphone.
Those microphones are incredibly sensitive and can pick up all kinds of things. So understand the minute. Or the, the moment I should say that you make that, that 911 call, it's being recorded for posterity, , and can be again, taken out of [00:16:00] context. So understand that everything we live in a, what I call a ubiquitous technical surveillance state, right?
So you're being recorded by your phone. You're probably being recorded by your car. You're being recorded by your neighbors and your own ring doorbells, street light. I mean, everywhere we go and everything we do. Including our smart watches. Everything's being recorded. And, , so they will have access to that in many cases.
 So understand that it's incredibly important to remain silent as much as you can. You're not doing anything wrong. This is your constitutionally guaranteed right as an American to remain silent, wait for your attorney, absolutely cooperate with law enforcement. But that doesn't mean to offer or proffer more information until your attorney arrives.
Make them, help them make the scene safe, cooperate with fully with whatever they're instructing you to do, except for making a statement. 
Kellene: Yeah. Yeah, so we're in the world of liability insurance now is essentially what we're talking about. And a lot [00:17:00] of gun owners just don't think about that. They think about, you know, yeehaw, here's my second amendment, right?
I'm going to exercise it if necessary. , they've thought about it enough that if the occasion arises, they do exercise it, but there are risks, if people don't have something as simple as liability insurance. What are so critical about having liability insurance for responsible gun owners?
What risks do they take if they don't have it? 
Rob: Well, so it starts with, again, understanding, you know, what you have working for you already, right? Most people that I've talked to over the years, and it's been a considerable number of people, including law enforcement officers, assume that you Usually incorrectly that their homeowners policy or their umbrella policy will cover them for an act of violence.
Right? So almost universally, that's not the case. Okay. So, so any intentional act is excluded. Generally speaking. So most homeowners insurance [00:18:00] policies will not cover you for an intentional act. So, you know, intentionally defending yourself using force in any way. So generally speaking, that that policy is not not going to be an effect at all.
What you need to understand is that anything you do to contribute to that situation. So let's say you're riding down the road and there's a road rage incident and you issue the universal, you know, single digit salute and escalate that situation that could nullify your, Self defense claim, right? Your ability to claim self defense in court, which , would really significantly hurt your standing as well.
But, you know, in terms of liability insurance, unless you have a dedicated self defense liability insurance policy. And of course, one of the main benefits of the USCCA is our policy. As soon as you join, like the instant you join, you are covered by what I truly believe is the industry leading SDLI policy.
Now, I would encourage your listeners though. Don't just, take my word for it. Do your [00:19:00] homework. There are plenty of other companies out there that have good policies. That, you know, there's always pluses or minuses for every, you know, there's healthy competition in America, right?
So, you know, there are policies out there, but , I say any person who would even consider using force and it doesn't have to be a gun. Okay. Any person who would consider using force to defend themselves, a bat, a golf club. pepper spray, a car, a fist, whatever it is, if you have this kinetic exchange with another human being, it's almost certainly going to result in criminal investigation, possibly prosecution, and then almost certainly civil liability.
So even if you're found innocent in a criminal court, they're probably going to go after you civilly for some, for money. And so you want to have both of those, which of course the USCCA does offer. Again, it's all available on our website. Do your homework. Don't take my word for it, but please [00:20:00] find something out there that suits your needs.
 And research it because again, once it's happened, It's too late to get the policy, right? It's better to have it, not need it, than need it, not have it, right? 
Kellene: Well, let's give some context to this, , because I heard, plenty of scenarios in the class that were helpful to remember.
 In one instance, there was a man who , was out on on bail for a heinous crime. Shouldn't have been out on bail in the first place and immediately went and attacked someone. He was killed in the process and , his surviving mother sued civilly. She was actually victorious. because of how the self defense went down.
She was actually victorious in making the victim pay for the children, child support until they turned 18. I think that's what happens when you have inadequate representation, share with us some scenarios that helped to enlighten us a little bit about what can happen.
Rob: So There, there may be many of your listeners [00:21:00] there who maybe can never envision themselves, you know, using a gun. All right. So, to defend themselves or others. Fine. I'm going to talk to you about a situation that happened relatively recently. This man just came up to headquarters. I met with him and an incredible story that I think anyone.
So he's home in a suburban neighborhood, his brother and son are across the street doing some yard work, for a neighbor and cutting the grass and, he hears this commotion now, the neighbor adjacent to the yard, they were cutting has a chain link fence and behind this chain link fence, , is this pit bulldog, like a really, Nasty.
You know, I love dogs. Don't get me wrong. Most pit bulls are great. This one had been raised to be aggressive, and vicious. And so this other neighbor thought it was very funny to let the dog out into the backyard who would then run up and down the fence, just snapping and [00:22:00] barking and growling. And as this, you know, I think he's 11 or 12 years old kid is pushing the lawnmower in the other yard.
Well, So you got uncle and son across the street doing yard work and all of a sudden this dog gets under the fence. And now there's nothing. But yeah. And so the dad comes out, our member USCCA member comes out and sees this vicious pit bull who is being held at bay with a lawnmower and a weed whacker.
That's it. And , the owner , of the dog is standing on his stoop, laughing about this. Okay. Now the dad, the member has his, you know, retrieves his weapon, goes outside. He says, Hey. Get this dog away from, you know, my family control your dog. I'm gonna have to shoot him. All right, if you don't and eventually the neighbor gets his dog goes back in the house.
Well, believe it or not, several minutes later, the police show up to investigate and our member is arrested because the Neighbor, the dog owning neighbor [00:23:00] calls the police, lets him know that, Hey, this guy brandished, which he never did. Brandished a firearm, told me he was going to shoot my dog, shoot me.
None of that ever happened. , but our member was arrested, put in handcuffs and taken down to the station. Luckily again, his USCCA membership kicked in. We had representation, an attorney was there to meet him. But imagine this situation, your son, your brother are, are. Literally, you know, holding this vicious dog at bay with a weed eater, the neighbor is laughing about it and then you get arrested because you threatened to potentially have to shoot this dog if he doesn't retrieve it.
So stories like that. So we actually have a web page as part of our website member testimonials. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of real world stories that we've put up there to help people understand really. Contextualize, right? Put themselves in the shoes of their fellow Americans who have been through [00:24:00] this process.
Some of these are absolutely heartbreaking, which is why I'm so proud to be part of this, because I was on the other side of the fence. I was a law enforcement officer. Of course, you know, again, I'm not. Trying to be negative against law enforcement, but a lot of times they don't have all the facts. They don't know what happened, right?
They're only taking what they can gather from everyone there and Everyone's story is going to be different. So, you know, you can't rely on well, this is what happened. Well, You know, again, it may not be what the facts bear out or what the investigation bears out might be a different story. So you've got to have again professional representation.
You have to have a team on your side starting with that initial phone call. So as a member of the U. S. C. C. A. You have access to our critical response team. Literally, you call it up and there's a Professionally trained crisis counselor to tell you what to do, what to say, how to behave, to help get you through the situation responsibly.
Kellene: And that should be your second call folks. Your first call should be 9 [00:25:00] 1 1. But yes, they are well trained. These aren't, these aren't just hipsters sitting in their, in their PJs, you know, playing video games until they get a call. What's the call volume like for them? 
Rob: You know, we get I'll call say it's a hot call, fairly frequently.
I mean, we have over 850, 000 members, currently in the United States. So you can imagine, , with with crime on the rise and trust me, crime is on the rise. Response times are are pretty high. So , you're having a lot more people interacting, , having to, you know, be their own first defender.
So we get calls quite frequently, certainly several times a day. Some of them, of course, are more serious than others. But those that, that CRT, that crisis response team are 24 7, 365, extremely well trained, very calm. It's almost, almost like calling a 911 operator, but someone who's actually working for you.
Kellene: Mm hmm. And you know, that's interesting thing to point out. One of the things I learned in the class was [00:26:00] the, the best thing that that person who had the altercation with the dog, the best thing that they could have done was to have called nine one, one first, because then they set the scene as opposed to the other guy who was clearly setting a bogus scene.
 That's very interesting. So keep that in mind, folks. When you have a scenario, even if it seems benign, get on the phone to 911, get things on the record, before somebody else gets their version. , so beyond insurance, share what other resources the U. S. CCA offers to its members to ensure that they are prepared for worst case scenarios.
Rob: Well, , so my job is head of education and training for the U. S. CCA. And, and one of the, things that I oversee is our Protector Academy, which is our digital repository for training. And so members have access and actually non members have limited access to the Protector Academy. And, you know, just sort of sample videos, but our full members have access to hundreds of hours of [00:27:00] training of, legal, So, you know, we have, you know, nationwide network of extremely experienced criminal defense attorneys who have recorded sessions of, , when can I, , brandish a firearm?
When is it okay to do this? When is it okay to do that? What should I do in this situation? And these attorneys, who have courtroom experience, proven successful courtroom experience will give you their perspectives. And I can tell you it's vastly different from what most people, including me, would pick up, from Hollywood or the media or that sort of thing.
It's a whole different story when it's for all the marbles in real life. So, you know, the online training , is a huge part of it. We also offer a, , , when I say award winning, it just won the best magazine in the country award. So the concealed carry magazine, comes out,, I think eight or nine times a year and it has, it's just Packed full of stories, you know, real life member stories.
It also has gear reviews. It also has just tips and [00:28:00] a lifestyle for people who are concerned about, , how can they best become a true competent and confident stakeholder in their own security? Just a really, really well done magazine. Of course, that's part of your membership as well. 
Kellene: Yeah, I actually there were a couple of members in my group and they went on to say how shocked they were with the content and how quality that it is, 
and of course, the instructor was, you know, head over heels in love with it as well, that he could share its articles with other people in real life. It has application. It's not just fluff. Certainly has application. So let's talk about the, this other scenario real quick. Just because I feel that it merits being part of the cluster of scenarios.
 There was a scenario that we were shared with in our class in which a woman used a pepper spray for self defense. She obviously was. Absolved of any wrongdoing from a criminal standpoint, but the person was later able to come back [00:29:00] on a civil aspect and prevail because the pepper spray was antiquated because the, , the pepper spray itself was antiquated.
What do you have to say about that? 
Rob: You know, the, again, , an attorney. His job, her job is to represent their client and get the best outcome for them. So, you know, the plaintiff in this situation, I'm not blaming the attorney, it's their job. And so they're going to go after any possible way to get, you know, again, it's compensation for themselves and for their, for their client.
Of course, understand they're, they're motivated to win because that's when they get paid. It's important to understand that, you know, in a courtroom, it's not necessarily what actually happened. It's the story that can be told the narrative that could be spun by the opposing councils. And these are professional wordsmiths right there.
That's what they do. And so, you know, in this particular situation, yeah, the pepper spray, I think was out of, , it was either out of date or it was too high. Yeah, [00:30:00] something like that, which should have actually made it less powerful. But, you know, again, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
And so, you know, the court again, it's important understand the threshold is so much lower in a civil court, right than it is in a criminal court. So you just have to have a, you know, 51% And you win in civil court, right? So, , many, many times we've seen our, members prevail in a criminal court. And you think, all right, well, that's it.
Well, no, no, no. It's just getting started now. The civil trial. Well, when the, one of the great. Features of the U. S. C. C. A. You know, coverage is the civil liability is unmatched. It's not even close. And of course we pay for that as well as in terms of like providing the attorney and then, and then damages, , it's just like I said, do your research.
Don't take my word for it. Look at the different competitors. And if you have any inclination of defending yourself in [00:31:00] any situation, you really should have some type of self defense liability insurance. 
Kellene: Let's talk about constitutional carry for a second because it is becoming more prevalent in the U. S.
 But I was just talking to someone the other day, , in Arizona and , we got to talking a little bit about my background and , she proudly declared that You know, her state was constitutional carry. So she didn't worry about getting her concealed carry permit, for when she went to Utah, she said, because Utah is a reciprocal state.
Well, you and I both know that that's not how constitutional carry works. What should our listeners know about that? 
Rob: Well, so the cause is constitutional carry is, or, you know, several different, you know, permitless carry constitutional carry, is in effect in well over half the states now, and I think it's a great thing.
 It is literally what the Constitution guarantees. Now, your right to keep and bear a firearm shall not be infringed. And I literally swore an oath [00:32:00] to, you know, die if need be to protect that right. But I will say this while it's absolutely not you know, requirement to get trained well on the use of the firearm, just because you have the right to do it.
Great. Great. Go out and have a firearm. I do believe it is the one true equalizer, you know, of extremely disparate, disparate. You know, individuals involved , in a conflict. If you have a firearm and you're well-trained and well positioned, , you can pretty well hold off just about anyone, for a, for an extended period of time.
But, you know, in terms of the constitutional carry, I think people just think, well, I've got it now. I've got this, this weapon, this magic talisman that's gonna keep me safe 'cause I have a gun. Well. Unless you are very proficient, very comfortable with it, there's a very high likelihood, that one, you're not going to do well, right?
Under stress, your performance declines. , here's an interesting fact that I'll share with you that I think people [00:33:00] really need to consider and, and put themselves in this shoe. , so the FBI, where I came from keeps statistics and has for, you know, 100 years now plus one of the oldest running statistics that the FBI keeps track of is the, , law enforcement officer involved shootings.
Okay, so an adversarial shooting got a bad guy, an FBI agent or a police officer or sheriff's deputy doesn't matter for 80 plus years. This statistic is held true just within one or two percentage points either way each year and this is A law enforcement officer gets into an adversarial shooting with a bad guy That distance is on average between seven to ten feet.
So very close proximity, right? and this is a trained law enforcement officer now, you know, very varying levels of training but Trained law enforcement officer seven to ten feet on average Again, for the last 80 years, that law enforcement officer will miss 70 to 80 percent of the rounds they [00:34:00] fire in that 7 to 10 foot exchange.
All right. So, so think about this, seven to eight of those 10 rounds are going into something or someone other than their intended target. All right. And so as a law enforcement officer, if it is a, if this is a, you know, a righteous shoot, a good shoot, so to speak, okay, they're civilly and criminally, you know, exempt from prosecution, generally speaking.
As a private citizen, you have none of those protections. There is no good Samaritan exemption for using a firearm in any state. You are absolutely criminally and civilly liable for every round you fire. All right. And so, you know, it's important to understand that, yes, having the firearm is a very important first step, but becoming, , proficient, becoming confident and competent with it, understanding the limitations of it, understanding your liability, just because your state or [00:35:00] Commonwealth has constitutional carry, that does not mean that you That does not mean that all the rest of the laws and the probabilities go out the window.
I highly, highly encourage people to get trained and then to keep up with your training because firearms, just like every other skill golfing, anything you do, if you don't do it for a while. You get rusty, you know, your skills slip. And so people need to remain whatever weapons platform they choose to defend themselves.
 You gotta train with it if you want to be good with it. And, and the, the time to hope that you're good with it is not when you're, you know, facing, you know, an existential threat.
Kellene: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I just recently posted an article in which one of the things I suggested that people do is to do some squats before they shoot at their target, get their heart rate up and going and see how their aim is impacted by that.
Rob: Yeah, that's something we would do obviously at Quantico and, , you know, I traveled the world training law enforcement officers. We would put them in their, you know, their kit, [00:36:00] you know, heavy vest and run them around, get their heart rate up. And then, you know, try to actually have a moving target because I can assure you, , that the person is not going to stand still like a piece of paper on the range.
So it's very, very difficult to shoot someone. It just is. And, the thought that, well, I can stand here five yards. From a static piece of paper. And that is realistic. You know, it's good for trigger control, side alignment, you know, that's about it, you know, , that's what Let's talk 
Kellene: about the other impact of that.
Let's talk about the mental, component. What are the most overlooked aspects of being truly prepared for a critical situation mentally? 
Rob: Well, I like to operate on, on something I call, , a concept I call pre made decisions, right? So, you have to understand, physiologically, psychologically, that if, and this is just human nature, again, to get to the very opening thing we talked about, what I saw in Charleston, what I've seen so many other times, if you are suddenly, [00:37:00] unexpectedly faced with an existential threat, Human nature is to do one of three things, right?
Freeze, run, or flee, or fight. Generally, people will freeze. Your body will, will, unless you have thought about what you would do, One, ahead of time. It has to be ahead of time. It does you no good to think, well, I'll come up with a plan in the heat of the moment. That is certainly not going to happen. You must decide, alright, this could happen to me.
It's unlikely. Yeah, statistics say it's unlikely. It's unlikely. But it could happen. So. Now that I've accepted that this could happen, what am I going to do? Well, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, if I'm at church, I'm going to, that's the exit. That's my primary exit. There's my secondary exit, tertiary exit, whatever it is.
I've got a plan. I've thought about that. You know, if I'm at my office, I'm sitting in my cubicle and I hear gunshots. What am I going to do instantly, even though no one else is doing anything because most people will [00:38:00] freeze. We have a pack mentality. We also, all of us, our brains have this bias towards normalcy.
Okay, it's important to understand that ahead of time, because your brain will try to trick you into thinking, , that's probably a backfire. Maybe this is some kind of a drill. There's no way this is really happening, right? And so that hesitation is costing you precious seconds. The most important critical element of any crisis is time.
Is time and if you can steal back a second or two or three or five Oh, so that pre made decision, right? I've already decided what i'm going to do I'm going to do this no matter what and i'll probably one It'll steal back time. It'll put me ahead of the curve and maybe i'll influence others. Okay, I like to I'll give you a very concrete example That I'd like to talk about.
So let's say I'm in a gas station, all right? It's late at night and I'm not paying attention. I'm not even, you know, listening to my own advice. I'm standing there pumping my gas and some guy [00:39:00] comes out of the darkness with a knife and says, give me your keys and your, wallet or I'll kill you now, almost, you know, as the director of training for the U.
S. C. C. A. I'm almost always armed, right? 30 years in law enforcement, a lot of experience, very confident in my ability to protect myself. And it's a clear situation. This guy has threatened to kill me if I don't comply. So it's a very clear use of force, but I've already made the decision. All right, in that scenario, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw my keys one way.
Toss my wallet the other way, and I'm leaving in a third direction, right? Because the car can be replaced, the wallet can be replaced, I never had much cash in my wallet anyway. So, right? All of it can be replaced, and I go on with my life a few days later as if nothing happened. Now, I know if I pull the gun, And I shoot this person.
It could very well be a justified use of force, but it's going to result in at least months, probably sometimes years of, of both criminal and or civil or [00:40:00] both litigation, right? My life is, is, Inalterably changed. Now people think, well, that's crazy. Why would he do that? Well, I know what the consequences are and the car and the wallet are not that big a deal to me.
Now change that equation slightly. My wife's asleep in the car or my grandson is buckled into the back seat. I've already made the decision. There's no way I'm going to let anybody near that car threatening. Right? So I, now I've decided what I'm going to do. I recall that I do have this plan and I'm committed to act right now.
I am dictating the action. I am much more likely to achieve that positive outcome. You know, I've decided the consequences, all of this that would flash through your mind. Otherwise, it's already been decided. So I think people need to operate on not all the time, but just have, you know, in the back of their mind, this is what I'm going to do.
If I hear gunshots in the theater, this is what I'm going to do. If someone tries to kick in my door in the middle of the [00:41:00] night, I have the plan. I've already rehearsed it. I put some things in place that I'm ready to act on. And I. Commit to acting. Decisive action is what wins, you know, critical situations, right?
Otherwise you will be overcome by events. And that's just a tragedy. 
Kellene: So folks, that goes to the second principle of preparedness that we teach. , just for your benefit, Rob, we teach 10 principles of preparedness in order of prioritization. And the second principle is mental preparedness. So that mental fortitude, I'm sure you're familiar with Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman.
Rob: Oh, I've met him many times. 
Kellene: Yeah. He will be on our show next week. So we're pretty excited about that. And for those of you who don't know, he's written two great books. I mean, he's written more than two, but, one is "on combat" and the other is called "on killing". And he talks about the psyche, the medical mental fortitude that's necessary for somebody to actually get themselves in a state of mind where they're willing to defend themselves, and [00:42:00] that defense may be throwing your keys one way and a wallet, another.
and then running. , but it's got to be thought of beforehand. We had a situation here a few months ago in which a man was accosted at a gas station, just like you described, with a knife and the threat of two men. And he instinctively, and I say instinctively because obviously he had thought about this beforehand, he pulled the gas nozzle out of the tank and he sprayed them down.
And that was enough to get them to flee. So, , it's just all about that mental fortitude, that preparation. It's vital.
Rob: That's right. 
. 
Rob: You know, the, the old adage is your body cannot go where your mind hasn't been. Right. So you must have thought about it ahead of time or you absolutely will not.
You know, come up with the right solution or rise to the occasion. You will fall back on your training. You'll fall back on , your preparation. 
Kellene: Yeah, we've got to give our hard drive something to work with. So even if that's watching movies and entertaining, what would I do if. The more physical practice that you can [00:43:00] get, the more solidified your mental preparedness is.
So like he's saying folks about the training and putting yourself in scenarios, the local classes that they offer really help with some of that mental fortitude as well. , and not being afraid. That's the last thing you want to have happen with this interview is having people afraid of defending themselves.
 That can be taken care of, of course, with what the USCCA offers. Let's switch gears here a little bit. Your work at Quantico and as a protective detail leader, it's had to have taught you a lot about resilience and situational awareness. What are some key lessons from your time with the FBI that you think can directly apply to everyday preparedness?
Rob: So one of the biggest lessons that that I like to share, you know, so for your listeners, understanding that the FBI, provides a full time protection detail for the attorney general, which is who is the head of the Department of Justice and the FBI director. So we have two full time protection, protection details, sort of like the secret service does.
And, [00:44:00] and so, you know, you've got. Lots of agents who are well armed, well trained, all former SWAT or, you know, active SWAT, , trained, armored vehicles, long guns, all the equipment, all the radios, everything you could possibly imagine, to conduct the Attorney General or the Director safely, wherever they go.
, and so the lesson I try to, you know, relate to the average everyday citizen is, you should. Act like your family's, protection detail. And here's what I mean by that, right? Very few of us have the luxury of having, you know, a couple of armored, you know, , you know, suburbans with agents with long guns in the back and earpieces and all that.
But the concepts and the principles remain the same. All that training, all those weapons and armor and preparation did not give us that sort of passport into dangerous situations. Okay, that's, that's such a fallacy, like, Oh, we've got all this training, we've got the, you know, [00:45:00] this firepower, we can go anywhere we want.
No, no, no, we would, our mentality was if we had to draw our weapon, the mission had failed. It's that situational awareness, that decision making, that, Hey, something here doesn't look quite right. Something here is not, not exactly conducive to safety. So we're going to wave off. We're going to, we're going to, you know, Choose to fight another day.
We'll find an alternate entrance. We won't attend this event, whatever it is. And so, you know, I think a lot of people have this, this terrible, misconstrued idea that, well, I've got a concealed weapon, so I can cut down that dark alley, or I can go into that bad part of town, because I've got a gun. That gun Or that weapon should be your absolute last resort to get you and your family to safety if you have failed in your situational awareness or someone has caught you by surprise, or you didn't see something developing in time to have separated [00:46:00] yourself from it again, time and then distance are your friends.
In any crisis, if you can, if you can see something developing ahead of time and put time and distance and barricades and everything else between you, that's what you want to do. And that's what a protection detail does all the time. You know, you see the movies where, whether it's Clint Eastwood, who's drawing his gun and shooting people.
If that happens, you have failed, right? It's, it's great. entertainment for a movie, but any protection agent will tell you if I've had, you know, I never once had to draw my weapon and all of the hundreds of trips and, you know, movements that we did because we had such a, a detailed plan. Great communication, people paying attention, if there were someone of interest that we, you know, we would go up and shake their hand and, you know, Hey, how you, and with the entire time, of course, we're assessing their demeanor, their behavior.
Are they presenting as someone who might be armed? , and if there was any question whatsoever, we were [00:47:00] communicating, Hey, let's take the, you know, let's take the principle to a person we're protecting another, another location or another route or wave off completely. So that weapon that you carry as a private citizen is your.
Passport out of danger, not into it, right? That's the, that's the biggest fallacy is, Hey, I'm armed. I can go anywhere. It's the last that, that is the, that is the mentality of someone who really doesn't know what they're doing. 
Kellene: Yeah. And I think that's, , some great parting wisdom for our audience in helping their preparedness efforts, that situational awareness.
, understanding what the purpose is of being , armed and ability to defend yourself, but never having to use it is obviously the best plan. Thank you so much. Before we go, I want to reiterate to folks, , the, the U-S-C-C-A membership. You guys just do such a great work and the benefits that you get with that membership are, are just.
Exhausting. , there it's all inclusive [00:48:00] and I don't want anybody to think that it's some gargantuan cost because it's actually very, very reasonable. There are several different levels. He keeps telling you to do your homework. , I would suggest do your homework as well, but I'm just going to tell you I've done my homework and I haven't found anything as comprehensive.
So by all means, take a look. What I would suggest is you take one of their classes locally, which are always free. , take one of their classes locally. See what you think. Get a feel for the organization. , like he said, there's over 1500 classes scheduled all over the U. S. Just in this, this next month, , in spite of the holiday.
So there's gotta be something nearby near you. I know I didn't have to drive more than 20 minutes to get to a class on, in all the cases. So I strongly recommend, being. Better prepared. This, this, , liability insurance comes under financial preparedness, which is our ninth principle of preparedness.
And the self defense comes under physical [00:49:00] preparedness, which is our third principle of preparedness. So we're, we're hitting all the bells and whistles here, folks. We've had a great guest in you today, Rob. Thank you so much for your expertise and for your passion of helping the civilians in the world to, , have not only the right to defend themselves, but the ability and the wherewithal to do so.
Rob: Well, I appreciate the opportunity and thank you for what you're doing. I love, I love this concept. I love your, you know, what you guys are all about. And, and, you know, there's nothing more heartbreaking than seeing someone who is living in fear because of doubt or uncertainty in their ability to protect themselves.
I saw that when my grandfather passed away, I was, I was 16 years old and I saw my grandmother. You know, who lived by herself now. She was afraid and it was just absolutely heartbreaking. And I don't want anyone to live in fear and not in the United States. So, you know, get, get some training, get some ability to protect yourself, get confident and competent in that.
And, and life is so much more enjoyable. That's what we're here for. 
Kellene: Absolutely. Well, thank you so [00:50:00] much for your time. And, , I still have. Another 10 questions. I'd love to ask you. So maybe we'll just have to have you back again. Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Bye bye.
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