Furry Friends in a Crisis: Transforming Pets into Preparedness Assets with Ken Ramirez

 Prepare to be amazed in this episode of Preparedness Pro as we welcome Ken Ramirez, a legendary animal behaviorist with over 50 years of experience. From escaping certain death thanks to a well-trained dog in the wilds of Africa to orchestrating the breathtaking flight of 10,000 butterflies across a stadium, Ken's stories are nothing short of extraordinary. Dive into the transformative power of positive reinforcement training and discover how to turn your pets into trusted allies, even in life-or-death situations. Whether you're dealing with a stubborn pup or wondering how to make your pet an asset in emergencies, Ken's expert advice will leave you inspired and equipped to deepen your bond with your furry (or feathered!) companions. Don’t miss this unforgettable conversation filled with real-life heroics and groundbreaking training techniques! 

Join us at Preparedness Pro in our Facebook Group or on our blog where you'll find peaceful, practical preparedness advice every day of the week!

Transcript

The Click That Could Save Your Life: Ken Ramirez on Revolutionary Pet Training for Preparedness
Kellene: [00:00:00] Welcome to Preparedness Pro, where being prepared isn't about fear. It's about freedom. I'm your host, Kellene, and every episode we explore the peaceful principles of preparedness and self reliance. No gloom, no doom, just practical solutions for everyday living that help you become more independent and prepared for whatever life brings your way.
From kitchen skills to financial wisdom, emergency planning to sustainable living. We're building a community of capable, confident people who understand that preparedness isn't about preparing for the worst. It's about being free to live your best life regardless of what comes your way. So whether you're starting your preparedness journey or you're a seasoned pro, you're in the right place.
Welcome.
Hey everyone, it's Kellene again. We are, live again with a wonderful guest. Going to change gears a little bit for you today. Today I have Ken Ramirez. Now, Ken, let me tell you how I ended up with Ken. I [00:01:00] was looking for, , talking to a great, animal behaviorist. And somebody who was experienced in clicker training, and the godmother, if you will, of clicker training is Karen Pryor, who wrote Don't Shoot the Dog.
, as Ken reminded me, that's been translated into tons of different languages. It was a best selling. She's written about, over almost a couple dozen books. And Ken has, co written some of those books with her. , so we have got Ken with us. Ken is a 50 year veteran of animal care and training. He is also a biologist and an animal behaviorist.
He served nine years at Marine World in Texas. Also was a trainer and coordinator, Ocean Safari in South Padre Island in Texas, and acting as a consultant to many zoo and aquarium programs throughout the world. He began his career working with guide dogs for the visually impaired. Now, isn't that awesome?
He's maintained close affiliation to pet training [00:02:00] throughout his entire career. He also hosted two successful seasons of the pet training television series, talk to the animals. We're just very, very fortunate to have Ken with us today. He's going to talk to us about how to make. Our furry family members an asset to us instead of a liability.
No, we love them dearly. We don't want them running off. We don't want them attacking people unnecessarily. And well behaved and that gives them greater peace and better center. So Ken, thank you very much for being with us today.
Ken: Well, Kellene, thanks for the invitation. I'm looking forward to chatting with you. 
Kellene: Well, our audience is really going to eat this up because you've had this incredible career spanning over 50 years in animal training, working with everything from guide dogs to marine mammals. I'm curious though, what first drew you to the world of animal training and, and how has that journey evolved?
Ken: Oh gosh, it's, it was a long time ago, but I grew up on a ranch, as a youngster in, West Texas and in southern [00:03:00] New Mexico. So I always had been around animals my entire life, but it was in my later years in high school that I started volunteering for a guide dog organization. And I think that the job, the time that I had with guide dogs really sort of changed the trajectory of my life because I began to see that You could train these dogs for this very noble purpose.
And, I thought about playing with dogs all day long, but helping them serve this other mission. I thought that sounds exciting and sounds really fascinating to me. And so as I pursued a degree at the university, I ended up getting a job at a marine life park. And it turned out that what I had learned about training guide dogs is no different than training any other type of animal.
All creatures, humans included, learn the same way. It's just about understanding the science of learning the science of behavior and understanding how to apply it. So [00:04:00] over the years, I Just have taken my career in a lot of different places, working in zoos, working in aquariums. I'm now a consultant for a variety of large dog organizations, whether that be, dogs in the military and in law enforcement, guide dogs, service dogs, search and rescue dogs, training people to training professionals who helped train.
Pet parents to be better pet parents. And I still consult with a lot of zoos and aquariums as well. So in essence, I am a behaviorist that really focuses on the best techniques to successfully teach and train animals, a variety of different things, depending on what someone's looking to train. 
Kellene: Well, I think the pet parents, you hit the nail on the head.
 I know that I would do much better with my two dogs if I was a better pet parent. I might have to talk to you for a second afterwards because, , I inherited one and she's a doozy, but I have always been a big fan of clicker training and it was Karen Pryor's book, that taught [00:05:00] me what I have been able to train my dogs and even my cat.
As the Executive Vice President and Chief Training Officer at Care and Pryor Clicker Training, I'd like to know what's your mission and how does it align with your passion for animal behavior and care? 
Ken: Well, absolutely. Our mission at Care and Pryor Clicker Training is very simple. It's a very simple statement is our goal is to help people train better.
That's the bottom line. And our entire mission is about educating people about good training techniques and how to train and how to approach using positive reinforcement to build a better relationship with your animals, how to use, training techniques to be able to get animals to participate in their own care.
 But that's what we do is we really, we're one of the largest positive reinforcement certification organizations in the world. We help. Teach people to be professional trainers so that they can go out and help pet parents be better pet [00:06:00] Parents, 
Kellene: you know, I remember the first time I experienced clicker training.
I had a new yorkie , Just a little a little a typical tyrannical puppy, you know chew on everything go anywhere all that And I said, okay, we got to get serious We got to start some clicker training and I started clicker training and you know It was my very first foray and into that. And she turned into a completely different dog just after our first session.
It was almost like she had all this kinetic energy and was just waiting for it to be focused. And it was just amazing to see her overcome with this different personality. And it was just so wonderful to have her as a dog after that. So for those who may not be familiar, can you explain what clicker training is?
and how Karen pioneered its use in animal behavior. 
Ken: Yeah. First of all, clicker training is just a euphemism for marker based positive reinforcement training. And when we say marker, we're [00:07:00] using things like a clicker, but it doesn't have to be a clicker. The clicker is just a little toy noisemaker, but it's used to help communicate with your pet.
So it can be a whistle. It can be A word like good. But the idea is you use positive reinforcement to help build better behavior. And the clicker is just a tool. There's nothing magical about the clicker. I think oftentimes people say, well, I've got to buy me a clicker. You don't have to use a clicker. You can actually take a ballpoint pen and use the little clicking sound that that makes, or you can use the snap of your fingers, or you can use a whistle.
The idea is. Something that's unique to the environment that the animal doesn't hear every day that allows you to tell an animal. Well done. What you just did in that moment was perfect. That was excellent. And by pairing the click with a favorite toy or with a piece of food or with a game, the animal begins to learn.
I [00:08:00] like the sound of that click and they start looking at it. for it and they learn very, very quickly. It is a wonderful way to really zero in on what it is you want to teach your, your dog or your cat or your horse to do. 
Kellene: Okay, so dog, cat, horse, , I think I also read she trained dolphins with the clicker training as well.
I mean, so it works with any animal as you were saying earlier, correct? 
Ken: Yes, the science of learning is the science of learning. And I think people get hung up on the fact that, well, a horse is different than a dog and a cat is different than a bird, but we all learn the same way. The laws of B it's like saying, Oh, I wonder how gravity works with a horse.
No, it works the same. It pull it's the science of learning. And so we all learn through consequences when things happen that we like. We do those things again. When something happens that we don't like, we don't do those things again. And it's understanding that that's how all creatures learn [00:09:00] that can help us focus their learning and get them to do the behaviors that will help them live healthier lives.
It will help them be better behaved. That will help us live with them easier. That's what training is all about is building a relationship and communicating with your pets. And clicker training is just, as I said, , A catch all word that refers to that kind of marking an animal and telling an animal when they've done something.
Well, the clicker is just a mechanism that allows us to. pinpoint that thing that they do that you like. 
Kellene: So how does it, how is it more effective? Because to me it felt magical. I know you're saying, you know, it's, it's just the way I was teaching. And of course I followed the book verbatim. , but how is it different compared to other more traditional training methods?
Ken: Well, traditional training methods tend to focus on both reinforcement and Punishment There is a, an approach to training that some people refer to as balanced training [00:10:00] in which you balance a positive reinforcement when an animal does something good and you focus on punishing an animal when an animal does something wrong.
And while The idea of using punishment is somewhat intuitive to us as humans, because most of us have grown up with parents or teachers or coaches or people in our lives that told us, no, stop, don't quit. But what Karen really revolutionized and what we do at Karen Pryor clicker training is help people.
Move away from using punishment away from using harsher techniques and focus on positive reinforcement because what it does is it builds a stronger relationship. It makes the learner look forward to participating in the learning because they don't have this fear that someone's going to punish them if they do something wrong.
Instead, they're looking for the thing that they want to do that's going to get them punished. It's going to earn them reinforcement. It's the thing that they're excited for. And so that's what really makes clicker [00:11:00] training different from other types of training. It's different than the traditional approach where you punish when an animal does something wrong and in clicker training, instead of focusing on what you did wrong, what we try to do is focus on, well, if we don't want the animal to do this, What would we rather they do instead?
There's got to be an alternative that we can then reinforce. And that way we can build a behavior in a much stronger way. And that's what makes clicker training so unique. And of course the use of the marker makes clicker training different from just other reward based training, because the marker really helps train faster. It helps pinpoint when an animal has done something correct. 
Kellene: Interesting. Well, this is also building trust between trainers and pets, correct? 
Ken: Absolutely. That's the whole point of good positive reinforcement training is you build a relationship with the learner, with , with your dog or with your cat.
And because you're using positive reinforcement, that [00:12:00] relationship becomes stronger because you're giving them clear information. They learn faster and that. ends up making your life with your pet more harmonious. It goes better. It isn't me against the dog. It's me and the dog working toward common goals and succeeding at doing the things that you need them or want them to do.
Kellene: I don't know if you've seen America's Got Talent, but the last, couple of seasons have had amazing dog trainers on their, , the last season, the woman was actually able to dance, literally dance with her dog. That's gonna be built by trust, I assume, and this type of training. 
Ken: Yeah. Most of the most successful dance routines and freestyle routines that you see on a show like America's got talent are almost always trained using positive reinforcement.
You're not gonna force a dog to do a spin or go between your legs. [00:13:00] You can force it, but you don't see the joy in the dog. You don't see the dog doing it , out of, enthusiasm. You see them almost a fearful dog that's doing a behavior when punishment is used. And so, Dogs in situations like that, and I have seen America's Got Talent and I've noticed the dog acts that have been there in the last couple of seasons.
And usually all of those dogs are being trained using positive reinforcement. Many of them are actually being trained using, if not an actual physical clicker, they're using the, the essence of marking good behavior so that the animal really learns the behavior well, and you see that enthusiasm from the dog.
And I think one of the things that people are attracted to when By acts like that is seeing the relationship that's there between the trainer and the dog. You see this, this symbiotic relationship, you see this well behaved pet. All of that happens because of good training and the clicker just allows you to communicate more precisely.
And that's what allows you to get those beautiful [00:14:00] behaviors like walking between your legs and alternating different directions because you're able to actually pinpoint for the dog the moment they do the right thing. And that's why clicker training is such a valuable tool. 
Kellene: Yeah, absolutely. And when you talk about how the dog has joy in doing what they're supposed to do.
I mean, if a dog could smile on this last episode, that dog was smiling. Yeah, it is definitely very different than the more, militant, , trained, behavior dogs that I've seen. 
Ken: Yeah. And that's where , the trend in working with dogs and working with pets has really, really made a huge difference.
In moving away from that punishment based approach. I think there it's just a heavy handed approach and there's no question. It works. You can scold a dog and it will slink away with its tail between its legs. But that is not the approach that we're promoting. We're promoting a much. More positive approach, to be able to build that, that really strong relationship.[00:15:00] 
Kellene: Wow. So, let's talk about pets as assets in a crisis. Cause that's the one thing that I worry most about , my one. Dog that just doesn't listen very well. She wasn't treated very well before I got her And , so she tends to act out of fear instead of acting out of joy, unfortunately in a preparedness or crisis situation how can your training turn a pet from a potential vulnerability?
Into a reliable asset 
Ken: Well, I think that it depends on how you look at the question and the way I would look at that question is You , in an emergency situation. And I think about, weather emergencies like hurricanes, tornadoes, where you're rushing to get out of the house or, or your apartment complex is on fire and they're evacuating you or any kind of really urgent issue that comes forward.
One of the challenges that pet owners have if they're not trained their pets well, is their, their dog or their cat goes and hides under the bed or you [00:16:00] can't find them anywhere and you don't know where they are. One of the things that a good training program can do can teach you that are going to help you like a good recall with my dogs.
I use a whistle and when I sound that whistle, they come running to me from wherever they are on the property. If they're outdoors or in the house, they come running to me, which then allows me to get them to safety or get them to where I need them to be. Another thing that often happens in emergency situations, sometimes people get into this feeling of, Oh, I, I don't want to put my dog in an enclosed kennel.
I don't want to put them in a tight space. But then when an emergency comes in, you find that you need to put them in the kennel. , you may need to transport them or do something in a kennel. And by teaching the animal that the kennel is a fun place to be, it's where the party happens.
It's where good things occur. You can actually cause or teach animals to love going into their kennel to not. And again, [00:17:00] those are the kinds of things that in an emergency when there's things that are going on, the kennel can be a safe place for your pet to go. And you can teach them to easily and readily go into the kennel instead of fearing going into the kennel because it's a place that's scary or it's dark or it's where my parents leave me before they leave to go to work or things of that nature.
Kennels build up this negative association in a lot of pets minds, but by training a kennel behavior and putting that on a cue and making that a positive behavior, that's really, really. helpful. And I find that the recall behavior and the kennel behavior are two behaviors that are really easily trained with a clicker.
They're easy to turn those behaviors into fun, exciting things to do so that the dog will always do them, or the cat will always do them, no matter what the emergency is. In addition, there are things like what I call tactile behaviors or medical behaviors. Oftentimes an emergency [00:18:00] comes up because your cat or your dog has been injured.
They've been bitten. They've , got something wrong with them, but they're afraid of going to the vet. They're afraid of being touched. And a lot of the training that we can do can really help make, That entire process of touching all over their body, something that the animal looks forward to enjoys doing.
And thus, when you need to do something in an emergency, it isn't that difficult. And then beyond those things, you always can teach dogs to do what I call alert behaviors, oftentimes in. A lot of the service dog work or the, guide dog work that we do. We purposely train those behaviors, but I also know that in many cases, someone who's elderly or who's hard of hearing may not be able to hear the microwave tone go off or the, or the phone ringing or the doorbell ringing. And, , a dog can very easily be trained to alert you when the phone [00:19:00] is ringing or the doorbell is ringing or whatever is going off. They can alert you to those sounds. That's something that is done very specifically and hearing dog work for deaf people.
But a lot of times we can actually train that so easily if That's kind of specific behavior that somebody's looking for. There's just so many ways that you can train your dog to help you , in an emergency situation so that they are helping, as opposed to taking away time as you're searching frantically for them, because they don't know any behaviors that will get you out of those kinds of situations.
Kellene: Well, let's talk about the bugaboos that people do, , in training their dogs specifically. What are some mistakes that, that people. You know, pet owners who need to be trained better. What are some mistakes that they do in raising their pets? 
Ken: I think the biggest one is our natural inclination to punish.
It makes sense. I think it's second nature to most people. It isn't [00:20:00] that you think to yourself, I'm going to be a cruel and mean pet guardian. I'm going to punish. I don't think that's what happens. I think what happens is we see the dog doing something we don't like, whether it's, you know, peeing in the house or chewing up your shoes.
And our natural reaction is to, out of just out of sheer shock that they're doing it or being upset, we go, no, and that no, Can startle a dog and it will absolutely stop them from doing it. But what it does is it makes it tell, it teaches us as, as pet guardians to be punishers because it works. And our goal as a positive reinforcement trainer is not to ruin that relationship because that's what it is.
Dogs are amazingly forgiving, but they will also, if you use punishment like that, they become afraid. And the worst thing that happens, especially if you're talking about emergency preparedness, when we are in an [00:21:00] emergency situation, We become tense, we become strident, we don't mean to yell at our partners and we don't mean to yell at our pets, but we're in a hurry and we're trying to get something taken care of and you're yelling your dog's name.
And that teaches that that is an indication. Usually for a dog that's been used to being punished when mom or dad's voice gets high or when it gets strident, when it gets stern, that means they're in trouble. And they go away. They hide from you. They don't even want to listen to you because they're so used to you using punishment all the time that they become fearful of you.
And that's the worst thing that can happen. And I always try to tell people because I work with law enforcement and I work with, , Dogs in service dog situations. I always try to teach people that when we are in an emergency, we tend to, to say things in a tense way. We tend to send to say things in a more urgent way.
And often when we train, , we're very happy and we say things in very [00:22:00] nice ways. And so a simple cue, like asking your dog to come to you, which you trained in a very positive way. Suddenly you're in a hurry. And so you're like Fido, come here. And, that fear goes through the dog and they think that they're in trouble.
But if you've never punished them, if you actually teach them that a stern sounding voice is just a normal sound, they will respond well to it. Especially if they've been trained using positive reinforcement. 
Kellene: Interesting. Okay, let's talk about some real life success stories. Can you share some examples where your trainings enabled animals to perform critical tasks like search and rescue, service work, or even in family emergencies?
Ken: Yeah, I mean, I don't even know where to start. That's what training is all about. 
Kellene: With 50 years of experience, I bet you are having a hard time answering that one. 
Ken: It's something that we do every day. I, you know, search and rescue is the best example. I mean, dogs are, are, Tornado, earthquake, [00:23:00] flood, explosive devices caused a building to go down.
All of those things, trap people in, difficult situations, all the time, search and rescue dogs go in and they, they sniff out where people are, find them alert rescuers where they are so that people can be brought out safely. I've worked with, one disaster search and rescue dog that in his.
Short working life is probably saved 70 to 80 individuals just by himself. And, , and then because I got my start working with guide dogs, every single dog that we place. in a home with a blind client, that blind client's life changes completely because that dog helps lead them through life, let them recognize when a red light turns red and where obstacles are, and it allows them this greater degree of freedom that they would otherwise not be able to have if it wasn't for, the guide dog.
I recently just. [00:24:00] Just in November, it was just, , just about a month ago. I was in Zambia, working on a project that I was working on there. And I was teaching, a group of, of locals, a snake avoidance protocol. You know, one of the big challenges that a lot of people have that live in places where there are rattlesnakes or in Zambia, there is black mambas and spitting Cobras , and puff adders, which are super venomous snakes.
And you worry about. Coming into contact with them. You worried about your dogs coming into contact with them, but because dogs use their nose so well, we can teach the dogs to alert us when there's a snake and they'll teach them to avoid the snake and move away from it. I was actually teaching a course, On this particular project.
And I was working with a dog that we had trained several years earlier, and he was just being a good demo dog. And we had hidden some odor of a snake in a certain area that we were going to have people get their dogs comfortable looking for and alerting to. [00:25:00] And as we were demonstrating how this works, the dog that I was working with, we were still.
Oh, 100 yards from where the odor was. The dog immediately, we were, he was sniffing around and he immediately came running over to me and herded me away from where I was, which is what he's supposed to do when he finds a snake, but we were still a hundred yards away from our decoy snake. And, , his owner.
At first was going, was upset with him thinking, Oh, he got excited and did it too early. And I being really recognizing what I saw in this dog, I said, you know, don't get upset with your dog. I think he's telling us there's odor right there. And, The person said, Oh no, I, we didn't hide odor there. I said, I know we didn't hide odor there, but he was so obviously showing me that there was something there that I, maybe we accidentally dropped one of our samples in that area.
And my assistant got a big stick out and started looking through the area and out of that area [00:26:00] slithered this very dangerous venomous black Mamba that would have killed me, had that dog not pushed me away from that situation. So it. It's just the number of times that dogs or pets can do things that really make a difference in your life is kind of a remarkable thing.
And the harder we work to build a relationship, the better we work toward using positive reinforcement. The more joy the dog gets out of interacting with you, and the more likely you're to have instance like that happen.
Kellene: Wow, you, I mean, I'm amazed by the story, but I'm creeping out about the snakes. I just, I You just say it so casually, you know, black Mamba and I'm, oh, 
Ken: it's not that it's casual.
It's a pretty dangerous snake, but I, , yeah, it was, , A very dramatic illustration to the folks that I was teaching of the power of what this kind of teaching does, but [00:27:00] I certainly didn't put myself in that situation on purpose, but the dog certainly saved my life. 
Kellene: Wow, that's amazing. Okay, so there's a couple of burning questions here that I just have to know.
I assume you have dogs, correct? 
Ken: I do. Yes. 
Kellene: Okay. So how does the Obi Wan Kenobi of dog training spoil his dogs? 
Ken: I mean, I, every day, I mean, my, I, I think , the, the power of good training is being able to, have fun, give the dogs things that they love every single day. So, , it means, providing them fun treats, providing them fun toys, providing them opportunities to run, providing them opportunities to go sniff of things if that's what they like, providing them with a good place to rest, a comfortable bed.
 Both of my dogs right now are right next door sleeping and they both have comfortable beds that they're sleeping in. And, I mean, I, I don't, to me, there's no, [00:28:00] to me, spoil your dogs. It makes it sound like you're doing something you shouldn't be doing. Like I'm going to do this, this thing that I shouldn't do.
And it's. You know, for me, building a good relationship with your pets and playing games with them and giving them toys and doing things that they enjoy is not spoiling my pets. It's just building a good relationship with my pets and doing that on a daily basis. And so, If that's what we want to call it is spoiling them.
Well, then, yeah, I'd probably do it 40 or 50 times a day. , it's just a normal part of interacting with your dogs, because you love them, you care about them, you want them to have a good life and. And in the training that I do, both of my dogs end up being really good demonstration dogs so that I can show people exactly what I'm talking about.
And they can see the dogs behaving that way, see the dogs doing the things that we need them to do, even under stressful situations that they still willingly participate in. A lot of these things, , is just a [00:29:00] real. Excellent way to show off what, what positive reinforcement can do. 
Kellene: Okay. So my next question, I, I used to have four dogs, and I had a cat as well, and she was actually nursed by one of the dogs.
, I got her, found her when she was very, very young and one of the poodles, without ever having a litter. Immediately started nursing her and her milk came in, you know, after a week and a half of this, it was crazy. So my, my cat thinks that she's a bit of a dog sometimes. In fact, she'll actually purr when I shave her.
 Because she's a long haired cat and sometimes she just needs a little extra help with the shaving. She'll actually purr and enjoy it, which is crazy. But I'm curious of what's this, what's the strangest thing you've ever trained a cat to do? 
Ken: , I don't know. It depends on what you call strange.
You know, most people 
Kellene: definitely out of out of what we normally would think of with the cat. 
Ken: Well, that's just it. The challenge with cats is so many people don't think about training it when they [00:30:00] think about training, they think about training their dog. They don't think about training their cat.
But cats are very, very trainable. You just have to realize their needs and their wants. are a little bit different than the dogs. But, because I've done a lot of work in the film community, I've trained cats to do all sorts of bizarre things. Whether it be wearing a, wearing a costume or climbing, climbing ropes or riding in vehicles, riding on people's shoulders.
 You know, I got so used to doing those things. I don't think any of them is strange. I just think of them as unique to that particular situation. , I've even had a cat done, done a lot of training with cats to be service animals, to be a hearing ear cat, or to be, an alert cat or, things of that nature.
Cause cats love to train. You just have to find the right secret to. Unlocking their enthusiasm for training. 
Kellene: All right, you hear that, Gracie? You and I have got some work to do. Okay, so we've talked about dogs and you've worked with such a wide range of [00:31:00] animals. , birds, livestock as well, this works on?
Oh, absolutely. All, all, I used to teach a graduate course at Western Illinois university. And I would say to my students, whether you're training an earthworm or a university graduate, we all learn the same way.
Absolutely. 
Ken: Oh, absolutely. The only difference, that's not the only difference, but the biggest difference between an earthworm and a, Harvard graduate is of course, the Harvard graduate has a bigger brain and has the ability of talking, but earthworms seek comfort.
Earthworms want to avoid pain. Earthworms can be taught very, very simply, but because they're simple animals, , they can't do a wide range of behaviors, but you can get them to come when called, you can get them to move from one location to another. You just have to figure out how to. How to communicate with them.
And that's the biggest challenge in most training is recognizing, how am I going to get through to this [00:32:00] particular creature, which is where the clicker often comes in handy because it's a tool that communicates to them when good things are coming. But, I was asked, , in 2015, if I could help train 10, 000 butterflies to fly on cue during a gala symphony taking place in London. And we were successfully able to do that. But again, it was because so many people don't think of butterflies as being an animal that can be trained, that it just doesn't occur to them to train it. But we were able to train them to move from, to fly across a soccer stadium in London, on cue.
And it made this beautiful ribbon of color flying across the sky as, as we did that behavior. But when people ask what's the most unusual animal you've trained, that usually it's butterflies that I say simply because it's not an animal that people think of when it comes to training, but it is a great example. of how all animals [00:33:00] learn. If they have a brain, they learn the same way. It doesn't, it doesn't require super intellect to know that if food is over here, I want to go toward food. If something painful or hot is over there, I want to move away from it. And, that's what learning is. That's what, how everything we do revolves around things that bring us pleasure or things that cause us pain and discomfort.
We gravitate toward those things that give us pleasure. We try to avoid those things that we don't enjoy. It comes to how we build relationships with people. We like people that we have fun with people , we care about people that can have a beer with us. People that we like going to the movie or that play games with us.
We don't like people who are rude, who are condescending because the people that play games with us and have a beer with us are reinforcing the people , that are rude and condescending to us. are punishing. It all, it works the same way. And that's what we [00:34:00] have to recognize when it comes to training our animals is build a relationship and provide those animals with the comforts and the things that they enjoy.
And they will be so willing to learn from you and so willing to work with you and do the things that you want them to do. And that's how you get a really well behaved pet. 
Kellene: Well, you know, people are wondering what your reward was for these butterflies to get them to. To fly in a certain direction, 
Ken: it was nectar.
We used a nectar that the same thing that the butterflies look for when they go to flowers and plants as they get nectar from the variety of flowers that they fly to. We just had nectar that we had to extract it. Put it in bowls so that they would fly to it on cue. 
Kellene: Wow. That's amazing. Hats off to you.
It trained butterflies. Holy cow. I just thought that they were, they were captured and then they were released. I didn't ever think of a butterflies [00:35:00] flying in a particular direction. I can just hear, you know, 
, the butterfly getting out of line. Now, come on Angus, get back with the group, you know? All right.
So someone who has a stubborn or anxious pet. How can your training methods help overcome those challenges, especially one that maybe has been abused in the past or reliable behaviors? 
Ken: I think one of the first things is I, we always try to tell people to recognize that All behavior occurs for a reason.
So when we call an animal stubborn, the question really is, well, why are they acting in that way that we think of is stubborn? And usually you hit it on the head. It's not that they're stubborn. It's that their past experience in this situation has been traumatic. They've had a bad experience.
Oftentimes, one of the challenges that we have when we adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter is that they've had a background that we don't know about. They lived in a home somewhere and they were probably given up for [00:36:00] adoption because they were misbehaving and they've learned a lot of bad habits. A big part of dealing with , an animal, a dog that's reactive, that's aggressive, that digs up your garden, that chews up your shoes, that refuses to listen.
It's because they've never had a good experience listening to people. , they've, they, you know, when you think about things that we don't like about dogs. It's usually those things that are natural. Dogs naturally poop. They naturally pee. They naturally roll in the dirt. They naturally dig. They naturally bark yet.
Somehow we don't want them doing those things, except in the right places. So, , a big part of it is is building a relationship with that animal and gaining that animal's trust and understanding those things that create fear And recognizing, especially when it's an adopted animal, that it may have had some fear inducing experiences in its life.
And you want to protect them from those fearful [00:37:00] things. You want to show them that you're not going to force them into a situation where they have to experience those scare inducing experiences and turn those experiences into more positive. Interactions. And so dogs and cats are remarkable about making associations.
And so if in the past, you know, it's why dogs bark at doorbells. It's why dogs chase cars. It's because there's probably been some kind of an association made with that sound or that moving object that causes them to react that way. And one of the things we do is we change that association. There's this condition what we call scientifically refers to as a conditioned emotional response. Their emotional response to certain things is fear, anger, aggression. And what we want to do is turn that trigger, that thing that causes them fear into , something that causes them joy or comfort or let them [00:38:00] see that we're not going to bring that fearful thing into their life.
We're going to protect them from that thing so that they relax and become less nervous, less worried. much more comfortable in, in, in the situation they're living in. Oftentimes when it comes to dealing with behavioral problems, what a good professional trainer will do is they'll come into your home and look at the kinds of things, look at your dog's behavior and say, ah, he looks fearful.
I think he's afraid of this, that, or the other. How can we change that? Do we either change something that we're doing that's causing the dog's fear, or do we change? the way the dog perceives what we're doing so they don't think of it as a fearful thing anymore and they they associate it with a more pleasant experience instead and so that's one of the reasons dogs don't like going to the vet because always going to the vet is generally uncomfortable and if you want to change that fear there are ways to do [00:39:00] it just a question of how badly do you want to How much do you want to change it?
If you are one of those people that only takes your dog to the vet once every six months, but maybe you don't worry about it. You know, well it's just a once twice a year thing. I'm not going to worry about it. But if your dog has a fear of cars driving by and cars drive by your home every day, that might be something you want to change that, that association.
Maybe they were hit by a car. Maybe they were around cars that honked at them all the time and it causes that Association to be, I'm afraid of cars. I want to bark at cars. And usually when an animal's barking, what it means is they want that thing to go away. , the thing that will make them feel more comfortable is giving them distance so you can find ways for the dog to learn that they don't have to bark to make the bad things go away.
You will help bring, take them away from the bad things. And suddenly their life becomes better. They become trusting of you and you're able to gain that trust and use that to your [00:40:00] advantage. 
Kellene: Wonderful. Wonderful. You've worked with an astounding variety of animals and situations. , is there a surprising moment that stood out in your career?
Ken: Oh my goodness. That's hard to say. I mean, certainly, , the butterfly story was one of them. I remember when I got the call, it was from a botanical garden in London asking, you know, If I would be interested in helping them train butterflies and they had called all over Europe Looking for someone who would be who would help them and everybody said I don't know about how to train butterflies You might want to call this guy in the united states who's always saying that he can train an earthworm.
And so they gave me and and you know, I At first talking with them, I said, the questions were really, can a butterfly be trained? And of course I'd never trained one knowing what I know about how behavior works. I said, well, of course they could be, , but you, you probably need, I would need someone who understands what I don't, what they see and what they need to be [00:41:00] reinforcers, et cetera.
And she says, and she said, well, we got. The butterfly biologists on board, that can, they can help you. And I, and I remember as soon as I had agreed to participate in the project that I hung up the phone, I found myself panicking going, Oh my God, I don't know anything about butterflies. They're they're small, they're pretty, they fly, but I didn't know.
What they would be reinforced with. I didn't know what the cues were, but what I did know was that my understanding of the science of behavior is strong. And so if I can be paired with a butterfly expert who can answer those questions, like, can a butterfly see, and what can they see and what do they like, and what can I reinforce them with?
Once I got the answer to those questions. The way a butterfly learns is not any different from any other animal. And so it made training them fairly easily. And so we got, it was well over 10, 000 butterflies to fly from one side of a football stadium to the other side of a [00:42:00] football stadium. And we did that in 19 days.
It was less than three weeks. But it isn't really all that remarkable when you, If you understand behavior, you know, if I said to you, you know what, I can say my dog's name and he'll come running from where he is to me. You're not going to go, wow, that's amazing. Because you know, that dogs can come to you.
Kellene: Some people might. 
Ken: What I mean is you wouldn't think that was an unheard of thing. You know what I mean? You would, nobody would go, I can't believe a dog can run from point a to point B. I'm shocked. Yet when I say we got butterflies to fly from point A to point B, everybody's like, Oh my goodness, that's amazing.
Well, no, all animals travel from place to place. You just need to find a way to motivate them to want to travel from place to place. And so it's the same approach that you take to teach a dog to come to you, to teach a cat to come to you. Um, and you use those techniques [00:43:00] and it works. And so, but anyway, your question was really something that surprised me.
 I think the surprise was that someone asked me to train a butterfly. Not so much the surprise that I could, I always knew you could. I just didn't know. I never done it before until I was given that opportunity back in 2015. And a lot of the projects that I'm involved with today, Are kind of remarkable.
I do a lot of conservation work. I was just in Africa working with an elephant project in which we're working with wild elephants and in an effort to save them from poaching, we've taught the elephants to change their migration pattern instead of going through the area that is terribly dangerous with poachers, we were able to teach them to change their route and reroute them a different way so they didn't come into contact with poachers.
Again, for me that was a remarkable experience and we were working with elephants out in the wild in the middle of the of the savannah [00:44:00] and and yet we were able to change that behavior and make those changes so that they We could save their lives. And, , and those are the kinds of, of really dramatic examples of behavior change.
And for me working with an animal like a dog, which is a domesticated animal that's used to being around people. That's easy. You know, it's the, butterflies and the elephants out there in the wild that you're training that are far, far more difficult because you don't have the ability to control their environment as well as we can with a dog or a cat in our home.
And because we can control the environment that the dog and cat lives in, we have the ability to shape, And change their behavior. 
Kellene: Wow. This has been just a wonderful masterclass. It's given me hope for what's possible. Reminded me of what I've embraced previously. I'm gonna, I'm going to resolve to do better with my, with my problem child, instead of just accepting.
Yeah, she's a [00:45:00] problem child, and I'll just love her anyway, but I'd like her to be more safe and secure in my household. , so where, where would you have suggest somebody to start in learning your your clicker training? Which direction would you point them? 
Ken: I, there's a couple of ways that I would go. I would certainly point people toward our website, Karen Pryor academy. com. And because there we offer lots of courses for the beginner who's just starting out, I wouldn't direct you toward our professional certification courses, but we do have beginning courses. We have a course called. train your cat. We have a course called Dog Trainer Foundations. Those are two courses that are great places for the beginner to learn about training.
 There's lots of good books out there as well, but those, , both the train your cat course and the dog trainer foundations course are just really good places for beginners to learn. to get some education online with online [00:46:00] learning. And give you the chance to try stuff out with your pet, Learn the skills of clicker training, learn how you can develop a better relationship, learn a lot of basic skills like teaching an animal to come, teaching an animal to go comfortably into a kennel, all of those things, walk on a leash comfortably.
All of those are things that we teach in some of those basic courses. And so that, that's where I would direct people if they were just starting out and wanting to go, how can I find out more about clicker training with my pet? 
Kellene: So for those who are listening to this, it's Karen Pryor, Pryor spelled with a Y.
So P R Y O R. So KarenPryorAcademy. com. And of course, any of the books, the litany of books that she's written or Ken himself, Ken, I can't thank you enough. Thank you so much. And we appreciate your time and your invaluable work. I mean, you've, clearly changed the lives of, of thousands, if not more people just by being able to see, you [00:47:00] know, a herd, if you will. I don't know what I heard of butterflies were called a colony. I don't know. , but just by being able to see that and to be able to see success and build trust with their, with their furry family members, thank you so much, Ken. 
Ken: Thanks for the invitation.
Happy to be here.
Kellene: Thanks for joining us today on Preparedness Pro. I hope you enjoyed yourself and learned something new. Want more preparedness inspiration? Join our live shows every Tuesday and Thursday at 11 a. m. Eastern on YouTube or Facebook at Preparedness Pro, where we can answer your questions live. Looking for a community of like minded people who understand that preparedness is about freedom?
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