Preparedness Pro
Welcome to Preparedness Pro where being prepared isn't about fear—it's about freedom!
I'm your host, Kellene, and every episode we explore the peaceful principles of preparedness and self-reliance. No gloom, no doom, just practical solutions for everyday living that help you become more independent and prepared for whatever life brings your way.
From kitchen skills to financial wisdom, emergency planning to sustainable living, we're building a community of capable, confident people who understand that preparedness isn't about preparing for the worst—it's about being free to live your best life, regardless of what comes your way.
So whether you're just starting your preparedness journey or you're a seasoned pro, you're in the right place.
Preparedness Pro
The Preparedness Personality: Why One Size Doesn't Fit All
Ever wonder why some people thrive on detailed preparedness checklists while others prefer to wing it? In this fascinating episode, personality expert Eric G. reveals how understanding your natural preparedness style could be the key to building lasting self-reliance. Drawing from his experience typing over 20,000 individuals and creating the Utopia 16 assessment, Eric explains how different personality types - from methodical Gatherers to adaptable Shamans - approach preparedness in unique ways. Whether you're a structured planner or a spontaneous adapter, discover how to leverage your natural strengths instead of fighting against them. Learn why community resilience depends on embracing these differences, and how understanding personality types can help you build a preparedness strategy that actually sticks. Perfect for anyone who's ever felt that traditional preparedness advice just doesn't quite fit their style. From barbecue techniques to survival strategies, this conversation bridges the gap between personality science and practical preparedness, showing that true resilience starts with understanding yourself.
Join us at Preparedness Pro in our Facebook Group or on our blog where you'll find peaceful, practical preparedness advice every day of the week!
Personality Meets Preparedness: Thriving Your Way
Kellene: [00:00:00] Welcome to Preparedness Pro, where being prepared isn't about fear. It's about freedom. I'm your host, Kaleen, and every episode we explore the peaceful principles of preparedness and self reliance. No gloom, no doom, just practical solutions for everyday living that help you become more independent and prepared for whatever life brings your way.
From kitchen skills to financial wisdom, emergency planning to sustainable living. We're building a community of capable, confident people who understand that preparedness isn't about preparing for the worst. It's about being free to live your best life regardless of what comes your way. So whether you're starting your preparedness journey or you're a seasoned pro, you're in the right place.
Welcome.
Hey everyone, it's Kellene, the Preparedness Pro. I've got a fun guest for us today. We're all going to learn a little bit more about ourselves and in hopes that it will make us better at accomplishing our goals and living a more self reliant lifestyle. I've got [00:01:00] Eric G with us today. Let me just tell you a little bit about Eric.
He has administered a personality based life coaching for more than 20 years. He's built a really successful education company that used his personality typing method. Now, this is a unique typing method. He uses it to better the lives of Oh, he's had over 20, 000 students, parents, and teachers. He's the creator of the Utopia project website and the Utopia 16 assessment.
He's disseminated his method to over a half a million users since the website's creation in 2016. He is making an impact people. I think we should all strive for that. His coaching program has been used in companies such as Hulu. And Disney and universities and over 40 school districts. So we've got him here today.
I'm so excited to have him on Eric. Thank you so very much for joining us.
Eric: Thanks for having me Colleen. I'm excited to be here.
Kellene: All right, let's dive into some questions here because I have a boatload of questions. You've [00:02:00] personally personality typed over 20, 000 people. How would your personality type yourself when it comes to preparedness?
Eric: So I use animals for my personality type, just not our personality typing methodology, not to confuse anyone. If I'm just saying random animals. So, and there's 16. And so I would be considered not the most flattering, but a baboon. And so that's why when anyone ever gets an animal personality type that they don't particularly like that animal, I'm like, Hey, you know, I don't have the most flattering either.
So just live with it. Okay. Everybody wants to be a Fox.
Kellene: Does that make you like an obsessive checklist maker or a wing it and hope for the best type? What does the baboon mean?
Eric: You know, baboons. So it all connects to like a main core idea and a main core goal. And baboons are part of what I call the shaman pack.
And shaman seek self knowledge, right? So when it comes to how they interact with the world and becoming prepared with the things that hit us, it's more about doing, reacting to those things [00:03:00] in a way that feels right within ourselves, right? Where other types are going to be a lot more practical. So when it comes to like, whether I'm free flowing or whether I kind of plan, it really depends on the context.
I think with me but I will say for the most part, we tend to go with the flow because we do baboons tend to have a confidence that they're going to be able to adjust. And it almost doesn't feel right if they prepare too much because they always want to be prepared to adjust. And that's just part of their own, their personality.
Kellene: Interesting. All right. So why don't you give us a synopsis of your personality typing, just explain a little bit of it to us, and then we can go on with some of our other questions.
Eric: Yeah, you know, there's four main, I call them personality packs, right? So I'm using animals. I, there's the gatherers, the hunters, the shamans that I previously mentioned and the Smiths and gatherers make up about half the population.
So even though there's four packs, they, one of them makes about 50 percent of people. And within each of those packs, there's four animal types, which [00:04:00] in total makes about 16 personality types. And I think to know the core value that each pack has a different core value is really important, especially when it comes to preparedness, right?
Because gatherers focus on safety and security. So I do think when we think of the general, like what it means to be prepared, that actually is a very strong gatherer value, which is like, make sure you have all your ducks in a row, lined up, ready to go, you know, write down everything, have a planner. But not every personality type is like that.
And I think I'm always about like trying to lean into our strengths first before we start borrowing from other types to like interact with the world and prepare ourselves for like what comes at us.
Kellene: So what's the wildest or most surprising thing that you've learned about people's personalities when it comes to high stress or maybe a prepare or perish kind of situation?
Eric: I don't know if it's wild, but I do think it, I think to understand that values are different can [00:05:00] seem very controversial and wild because I think in general, I think we always assume that everyone's values are the same, but we just like do things differently in life. But what I found is that people value different things.
And because we value different things. Then the way once again, we prepare for the world is going to be very, very different, like a hunter hunters value excitement. Right? So for them, every new experience is really exciting. So in a way, they would rather be hit with different things that they don't expect because it excites them.
They want to be a little scared for lack of better. I don't think they would consider it scared. I think they would probably say they want to be stimulated. Versus a gatherer who's going to never want that feeling. So that's, they will always want to have everything like planned out and be able to like, see what's coming.
Kellene: So obviously in, in a world of preparedness, a one size fits all approach is not going to work. So how can your personality typing method help people build a preparedness plan that truly suits them?
Eric: You know, I'd say like, once you figure out what [00:06:00] your personality is, you'll start your personality type.
You'll start figuring out what is your, what are your strengths? Where do your strengths lie? So, right. If you're a gatherer, your strings do lie in structure, organization, planning. So I do think that's kind of a lot of the stuff that we're hit with in school. So it's not generally they aren't really behind because all the things they learn in school fit them perfectly to a T I think it's the other types, like the other 50 percent of the population that sometimes have difficulty because.
They're often told that whatever their strengths are not necessarily what they should be striving for. So I think overall, when, if you were to like read my book, the power of personality and understand what animal type you are, it'll help you go like, okay, these are my strengths. I can make a plan to better like adjust to the things that come at me, but while still staying true to myself, because that's the best and most effective and efficient way that I can respond to any scenario that comes by my way.
Kellene: Okay, so let me ask you this then. You've said that relationships with others [00:07:00] tends to mirror our relationships with ourselves. How can understanding ourselves better make us more resilient and resourceful in emergencies?
Eric: You know, understanding ourself, obviously it's gonna be super important, right?
Because I always say what helps someone is not necessarily going to help another person, right? And the problem is, depending on the context, different personality types will do better in certain situations. And we just take sports, for example I always think sports is a good metaphor.
I grew up, I coached basketball. So it's very easy for me to make basketball metaphors. I probably made too many basketball illusions of the book. But you know, like every let's say you have that grinder mentality. You're like a hard worker. You're physical. You know, you are just steady like a Cal Ripken.
I know that's a baseball player, not a basketball player, but Moses Malone type player where you're like, that is going to be good in certain situations. Right. But like at crunch time, when it comes down to hitting that last shot, the grinder might not necessarily be the person that you want. You might want that person who's very specific, [00:08:00] maybe a little flaky and not always consistent, but when it comes down to specific moments, They'll perform at a very, very high level.
And I know sometimes it offends people because they'll be like, wait, you're saying that I can't do that. And I was like, no, everybody can do everything. But we, at first we should try to figure out what makes us comfortable, right? What's our comfort zone. Because once we can figure out what our comfort zone is, we're not in danger of becoming anyone else.
And at that point, then we can start borrowing from other personality types to better prepare ourselves.
Kellene: Do you think that with you know, we've talked about who our audience is, et cetera. Do you think that with preparedness, that there is a danger of people trying to become someone else, someone that they're not?
Eric: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. I think I know I work with so many students and I think I'm not picking on gatherers, but you know, they do make up 50 percent of the population and I would say they probably make about 80 to 85 percent of people in the education system, especially elementary and high school level education.
So I think that idea [00:09:00] of structure organization, having a planner, I think it permeates and is told to everyone, but I remember as a kid. I was always told, Oh, this is what you should do. And it never really matched what was good for me. But of course, when you keep getting told, this is what you're supposed to do every year, whether it was third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, you know, they give me that planner.
And for that first week, I'd be like, okay, I'm going to do it. This is the year that I'm going to change. And I'm going to write my assignments down. And then five days into it, I'm like stuffing my homework into my backpack is not even doing it. And I think at the end of the day, like it's not particularly healthy.
To try to become something you're not. I think it's better to learn your strengths. And you know what I've always, and I've, once I realized that I've always been this way and You know, it hasn't hurt me so far.
Kellene: Okay, well, let's talk about something that can be a bit overwhelming for beginners. I think that preparedness can often feel overwhelming for beginners because there's so many stereotypes of what it is when in actuality, it's taking control of their life and living a joyful piece.
self reliant [00:10:00] lifestyle based on your years of coaching. How would you motivate someone who feels paralyzed by where to start?
Eric: Generally, like when I found someone in that particular situation, it's obviously a lack of confidence within themselves, right? It's not generally external things. I think it's generally internal things because it is the external and that the external stuff is like scaring them and they don't know that they're going to be capable or to handle it.
And I think the first step is just figuring out who they are first. and then kind of going over the different strengths. If you are like some of the more paralyzed types, I also used to associate shamans and smiths with being a little like that because shamans and smiths to combine only make about 15 percent of the population.
So already they feel like weirdos. And I say that in the nicest way possible. The only problem is shamans, they feel weird and they feel like they have to assimilate. And that can be really, a really painful process because you can never fully assimilate, right? Because essentially you're losing yourself.
Smith's on the other hand are often called assholes because [00:11:00] they're just like, no, I'm going to be this way. I don't care if I'm weird. I'm going to let my freak flag fly. And you know, I don't care. And either, both of those things can come with problems, but I think when I've encountered people who are just really like unprepared, or at least they feel like they're unprepared to handle life struggles, I always just go to no, okay, let's see who you are first.
Because that's clearly something that you're not particularly confident in and know that at least knowing the things that you like, will help you like practice those things, as opposed to doing things that you don't like. And I do think that the more we do things that we like, we're going to constantly do it.
And that's when we get good. I think sometimes
Kellene: That's when we get motivated is when we do things that we like.
Eric: Right. I think there's a misnomer like that mistake that people are like, Oh yeah, personality, you're trying to say that people are naturally good at stuff. I'm like, no, I think people naturally gravitate towards things.
And if you gravitate towards things and are given the opportunities, practice it, then of course you're going to get good. But it doesn't come without practice. [00:12:00]
Kellene: So you've coached a lot of people to thrive, which is my big message is I'm not, my north star is not survival. My north star is thriving and you've taught them to thrive by embracing their unique traits.
What lessons from Your work in education could apply to building resilient communities in times of crisis. So you've got all these different personality types, but we, as a community, we want to thrive.
Eric: You know, I think definitely understanding that the, we all have different values is probably the most important and it seems so simple.
And yet When you think of all the arguments that you've ever had with anyone, I guarantee you, like 99. 9 percent of them are just going to be that you value something different than the other person. And you can't communicate that properly because you just assume that that person should value that as well.
I think the number one thing is family. Everyone always says, Oh yeah, of course I value my family. It's like the number one priority. I'm like, is it for everyone? Because I don't, can't think of the last time I've heard about [00:13:00] Einstein's family and he did have a daughter, right? And I always use Einstein as an example because.
Clearly his family was not his priority. And you know what? Families all over history have benefited from the fact that his family wasn't his priority because his priority was like discovering aspects of the universe that he found interesting. Right. And I think that's probably the easiest way we can build communities is that we have to genuinely get along.
It's not just about tolerating people, but it's about understanding, Oh, this person values something differently and it has value within the greater whole. You know, I think the movie, the Avengers. I don't know. Do you remember that? I mean, I sound really good movie.
Kellene: The
Eric: Avengers, you know, it's in my book.
There's a reference point and it's a great example. Like there's captain America and iron man. Right. And they're having an argument. Right. And they, they both have very clearly different values, right? Like captain America is a perfect example of a gather safety security. Literally his weapon is not even a weapon.
It's a shield. Right. So he is all about protection where Tony Stark, [00:14:00] he's inventor playboy philanthropist, you know, as he introduces himself, he's a Smith, he, their priority is information. He's all about like figuring out what is going on in any situation. And so they have that argument where it's based on values because Captain America is like, Oh, you're not, would you sacrifice yourself?
Would you fall in a wire for the guy behind you? And, you know, Stark is just no, no, I was just like, cut the wire. Right. Because they have different ways of dealing with situations. The gatherer has no problem doing their duty and sacrificing and doing what they view as the hard, difficult work.
But a Smith never looks at it that way. If they see difficult work, they're like, how can I make this less difficult? And I think both of those are really, really needed. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I just think within the context, one is better than the other. Right. And I think we all need it.
Or we need both of them to make a greater community.
Kellene: Okay. So in your book, you talk about the power personality. I want to stick along with the [00:15:00] community theme. How can leaders in preparedness groups use that power to inspire and unite diverse individuals under a common goal like your Avengers?
Eric: You know, it's funny because I, with Hulu and Disney, I used to work with a friend of mine who worked there a lot with her teams to instill this kind of, I guess, positive energy and because, you know, once again, I don't want to paint a wide brush, but, you know, software engineers are not always the best at focusing on the people, right?
And so I think with leaders and anyone in a leadership position is really important to understand. Yeah, that person's not trying to offend you. And to connect with them and to get them to be more productive, you might not, it might not necessarily be the way that you're productive, right? I think we often assume that, oh, okay, this is motivates me.
So this is going to motivate the other person. And it's no, that's not the case. You know, like certain types, they just like different things. Like in the book, I often use an example of Edison, Thomas Edison versus Tesla. They're both Smiths. So they both have the same value information, but they go [00:16:00] about in a very different way.
And I think if we were to. lead either of them, it would be a very different motivation to get them to do, I guess, what you want them to do.
Kellene: Okay. I'm going to switch gears on you cause you're a bit of a backyard barbecue savant. So let's say the grid goes down and you're left with your smoker and some canned beans and a chicken.
Okay. So your personality of the shaman, I just got to hear what a shaman survival barbecue recipe is going to be.
Eric: Okay. You know, it's funny. I like savant. I wouldn't describe myself as a bond, even though I do love the idea of being very creative. So a baboon. So what we do is we just do whatever the fun for us is in the creation.
So I know with cooking, it's really interesting because you get different personalities, right? Like my brother, he's a beaver. He's, which is a form. It's an animal personality type that falls into the gatherers. When he cooks for people, he cooks what they want. And I know people might think, aren't you, shouldn't you cook to [00:17:00] please?
The people that you're cooking for, and I do agree with that, but what he'll do is he'll cook what he knows that they want and that they like, and I'm always like, yeah, but it's not fun to cook the same thing over and over again. So to go back to your question, I probably would do something that ideally I never had done before with chicken.
I'll be, this is going to really barbecue nerdy, but I actually don't do a whole lot of chicken barbecue chicken. I know I have done it like once or twice. I tend to do like a lot of briskets and pulled pork and stuff like the longer cooks. But if I had baked beans and chicken, I might mess around with it.
And if it's a whole chicken, then I'd stuff the beans in the chicken before. I don't want to do that motion too many times. I'd stuff it in the chicken, almost like a turkey and smoke it like that. That's probably what I would do. Who knows how that turned out? I mean, I always say you never know how it's going to taste until you do it and try it and see.
I've burned many things before in my life. So, yeah. You only learn by doing and it's probably very similar to my personality too. I'm not one for recipes as well. Baboons are not. There's a lot of other personality types and not, but some people are very like [00:18:00] strict, right? They have their timelines.
They have their set things that they do. Whereas I always like if I'm cooking a brisket, I know when it's done by just grab it and then hold it up. And if it jiggles. then, you know, it's done. But people, a lot of people temp it, you know, and put a, thermometer and stuff. So all power to them.
Everyone has some
Kellene: famous chefs rolling in their grave right about now.
Eric: You know that the whole jiggle, that actually is something that I, that's something that I learned from TV. I saw some pitmasters were like, Oh yeah, like I just called it and jiggle. I know there's that famous one in Texas and snows barbecue where she just puts her hand on the fire.
Like they don't have temperature gauges. It snows and she just puts her hand on the fire and that she knows if it's too cold, too hot. And then she just touches the meat and knows whether it's done or not just by feel. But of course, she's been doing it all her whole life.
Kellene: All right let's reveal something else about you.
You've dabbled in your inner magician. If you could wave a magic wand one personality trait into people, just if you could just wave it and get one personality trait into people to make them [00:19:00] more self reliant, what would it be? Ooh,
Eric: That's a really good question. I think this is going to be odd because it seems almost counterintuitive.
But I would say to be open and by that I mean open to other people, which is weird because you think oftentimes we think self reliant, we think focusing on us, but I think the more open we are to other people, it'll open ourselves up to growth. I hesitate to say changes. I don't believe people change. I think we either grow into better versions of ourselves or worse versions of ourselves.
And I think the way, the best way to grow into the best version of ourself is open to see the differences in other people. So we'll start seeing it within ourselves.
Kellene: Okay, so you're a bit of a pop culture geek too, especially 80s and 90s. So I'm going to throw you another curveball here. If the 80s or 90s pop culture taught us anything about survival, so like from MacGyver or the A Team, what do you think got it right or [00:20:00] hilariously wrong?
Eric: I love the A Team reference. I used to grow up watching the A Team all the time. I memorized the theme song in my head and I love how they have the 80s credits that sometimes People try to do retro now where they show the person a little montage of them, they freeze frame, and then they have the name you know, like George for part.
But I liked the 18 18 as a reference because you know, how I had mentioned that there's four personality packs. And then four animals within those personality packs. The A team has four members, and each one fits into each pack. Kind of like the Ninja Turtles, too. Ninja Turtles has four members, each one fits into each pack.
And I do think, in general, it shows us that, even archetypal, archetypally, when we're constructing a team, and the ideal team, we know that not every member is the same. They all bring, They're different special sauce or secret sauce to the recipe in terms of getting it right. And I think when you have Hannibal the Smith, who's like the first information base, objective planner, and then you got Baracus, B.
A. Baracus, you know, Mr. T, like the [00:21:00] gatherer who protects them all. I think they all kind of provide. Something to the team. And I think that helps us learn how to prepare.
Kellene: Yeah, I think you're right. Hadn't thought of the 18 that way. I was more of a MacGyver thinker prior to that. So thank you for that little enlightenment about my favorite 80s shows.
Okay. So your utopia 16 assessment, it's reached half a million users. What insights. from all the data that you've got could help people prepare not just physically, but more importantly, mentally for the unexpected.
Eric: You know, it's funny with the stats that we have it's a little skewed in terms of the overall population, right?
Because most of the people who are interested in personality typing. like a large percentage of them fit into one of the personality packs, like probably shamans because shamans, as when I said before, gather, seek safety and security shamans, seek self knowledge. So clearly personality typing, psychology, pop psychology is very enticing to them.
So [00:22:00] we have a lot of them who end up taking our test. And obviously we know that just based on the stats. But I would probably say that I think in general, when you kind of know what your personality is through there and figure that out. Then also, I forgot the question, . I was, I got into what I was talking about and I totally forgot the question.
So
Kellene: insights from your data about how people can prepare mentally for the unexpected.
Eric: Oh, right, right. Yeah. I think in terms of the data, I think in general, it shows that there are very different people and people answer the questions very differently. So if you're going to be prepared, the best preparation you can have is yes.
And I know I've said that quite a bit in this interview, but like people are different. You just have to accept it. And they're different in the most. the strongest way possible, no matter what, if you have a kid, your kid is not a chip off the old block. I mean, percentage wise, there is a chance that they might be very, very similar to you the same, but for the most part, they're going to be different.
Just accept it. Don't try to make them who they are or try, because I always think yeah, why would parents think that their [00:23:00] kids are going to be like them? Because I always ask them, do you think that you're like your mom or dad? Generally people are like, no, I'm like totally different. You know, they ruined me or whatever.
I'm like, we'll see the area. You go, you know, there's. We're very, very different. Like old, that oldest child stuff, how they always say, like the older child is always being the responsible one. It's really, like you think every person's older child was like that or oldest sibling was like that.
No, like they're very, very different. And so I think. We can just accept that like the stats on my test have shown that people answer in very different ways
Kellene: So, how do you see the intersection of personality and preparedness evolving in the future?
Eric: You know that I mean I would like it to be a bigger thing Obviously, it's something that I'm really passionate about and I've been doing it for quite a while And I do know that it's kind of coming through depend.
I know in Korea The MBTI is very big and MBTI is something that I studied. And I kind of evolved it into my methodology. I know a lot of people say, well, MBTI has 16 types and yeah, so there is similar, there are similarities there. How I [00:24:00] go about diagnosing someone's personality type is very different.
And I think that does make a huge difference. But I do think hopefully it evolves to a point where we're not like referring back to. MBTI and stuff as like the end all of end alls, because that's like a theory that's like a hundred years old, more than a hundred years old, I believe. So I hopefully it's evolving that we've learned more about people in the last hundred years, because a hundred years ago, I think we were still like.
Being a lot of crazy things. I don't even know we had heart transplants or any blood transfusions back then. So I think if science can evolve in that way, I would hope that our knowledge of people and like our intra and interpersonal skills would evolve and continue to evolve.
Kellene: Do you think that they're going to evolve?
I feel like we have such a breakdown of interpersonal skills today.
Eric: Yeah. It's so insular, right? And which is weird. I always say like the internet is the thing that, maybe screwed us up a little bit, which is funny because with internet, it gives us access to all the information in the entire world or more than we've ever had access to.
And also [00:25:00] access to more people than we've ever had access to. And you're right. It seems like we just become more insular and focused on a specific kind of information and a specific kind of people to interact with. And I don't know how to break that aside from, I mean, telling kids, you know, I have worked with a lot of students and I was working with one You know, I always ask them like, Hey, if a genie came out of a bottle and gave you one wish to like, like in terms of career, what would it be?
And generally I do that just so that I can kind of know what they're going for. Like when I've had one student said, governor of North Carolina, and I'm like, that's perfect. I'm not saying you're going to become governor of North Carolina, but at least I know that's your goal. So then we can kind of work towards that.
So I had a student say a real estate agent. I'm like, okay, that's pretty cool. Why real estate? And she's like lifestyle. I'm like lifestyle. Oh, that's a red flag. What do you mean lifestyle? And she's oh, you know, like the big houses, I get to live in a big house. And I'm like, okay, you're someone who's been watching selling sunset too much.
Okay. And I do think like Instagram, like just getting them away from them, or at least telling the young [00:26:00] people. And I hate to say the young people like makes me sound so old, but it's just telling them that the things they see on the internet are an illusion. They're not real Twitter. What do they say?
Twitter is not Twitter. Life is not real life. And I think once we learn that and we learn that a lot of the things are just. Like things that have been propagated to make us or manipulate us into certain things and to focus on what's really real, like the people around us or ourselves and what we actually genuinely love to do.
I think that'll make for a closer community. And I hope that. comes about. I'm not sure if that's true, but
Kellene: yeah, I certainly hope so as well. Well, how can people find you? And your book,
Eric: you know, you can, I'm on social media. I see all that things, but I do use social media. I'm not great at it. So, you can find me at Instagram at the power of personality.
But the best thing you can do, if you really are interested in finding out what your personality type is go on utopia project. com and that's a Y O U like YouTube. UtopiaProject. com and you can take the assessment [00:27:00] and then if it's closer, if you like some of the portraits on there, I really do recommend buying my book, The Power of Personality.
It's available anywhere you can buy books. If you want to give Jeff Bezos some money, find it on Amazon, but it's also available at Barnes Noble and just order it from your local bookstore or your local independent bookstore works as well.
Kellene: All right. Wonderful. Well, we just did this quick and snappy and I really appreciate your time.
I appreciate what you've done to the path that you have paid to pave so that you could be in this position that you are today and help people better understand who they are so that they can follow their true North star, not somebody else's. And so that they can truly be joyful and peaceful in their lifestyle.
Eric: Well, thank you so much for having me.
Kellene: All right. Well, you take care.
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